Few can match the devotion of Odissi dancers Surupa Sen, 44, and Bijayini Satpathy, 40, to their art. They live dance every moment at Nrityagram, the institute set up by Protima Gauri Bedi in 1990 at Hessaraghatta, 30 km from Bangalore. Sen is single and lives on the campus in her simple abode just five steps from the rehearsal hall and classroom. Satpathy lives a five-minute ride away. She is married to photographer Mahesh Bhat, who, she says, is well aware that her first love is dance. Sen is the institute's artistic director and choreographer, and also its oldest surviving student. Satpathy, who joined in 1993, is the director of the gurukul. In a conversation moderated by Associate Editor Suhani Singh, Sen says she loves to create, while Satpathy is happy to focus on teaching. But both love to dance, especially together. To make one of the most graceful and alluring pairs on stage, Satpathy is patient of Sen's impulsive nature which makes her change choreography at the nth hour. And Sen is glad to have a partner who understands what's brewing in her mind. What brought both of you to Nrityagram? Surupa Sen: I came on June 10, 1990. It was a month after Nrityagram was inaugurated. The dance hall was being constructed and a couple of cottages were there. My first image was of a wicker gate with little bells on it. I remember seeing Protima [Gauri] standing there with the architect [Gerard D'Cunha] discussing something. I remember her big eyes when she first looked at me. Immediately, her personality had an impact on me and you don't quite forget it ever. Something happened the minute I stepped foot here; I knew I was going to be here. I didn't know I'd be here for 24 years. (Laughs) (A crow starts cawing.) Sen: That may be Protima! (Laughs) I never really went back home [Delhi]. This has been my home ever since. Bijayini Satpathy: I came as a dancer in 1993 to travel with them to US and then go back home. Like Surupa, I had pretty much the same experience. As soon as I set foot here I knew, 'This is where I'm going to be for the rest of my life.' I definitely knew I'd be here for more than 24 years. The idea came instantly. I am so glad it has happened. But it wasn't easy for you, Bijayini. Your parents didn't want you to leave Bhubaneswar. Satpathy: Nrityagram happened around the time when my graduation results came out. Unfortunately for me, I did really well and topped the University. My family didn't want me to go back to Nrityagram. There was major emotional drama going on at home at that time. Surupa was there with me on telephone almost every other day helping me through it saying, 'The period will pass, don't give up.' Surupa, you insisted that Bijayini come. What about her made you feel she was the right fit for Nrityagram? Sen: I have to say her personality was incredibly boring at that point of time. Satpathy: (Laughs) This is on record for life. Sen: Honestly, she was the most spectacular Odissi dancer I had seen in my life. She was like clockwork. You'd say, 'Bijayini, let's do this pallavi and she'd start and finish.' When she dances, she doesn't stop. On the US tour, I had conceptualized and choreographed the first segment of Moksh, a piece by Guru Kelucharan Mohapatra, based on Radha-Krishna. It became an item number of sorts for us. It was something extraordinary because she had danced for 13 years before she came here and I had danced for just three years but as soon as we started dancing together it was almost like we had always been dancing together. It really didn't need that much discussion, that much... Satpathy: Coordinating or cues. Sen: It was almost like the way we had approached learning had been very similar. I instantly knew it was an unusual kind of chemistry. I wanted her because there was no dancer here to compare with her. And I really wanted to be able to dance with a spectacular dancer. I knew that somehow if I had an idea she'd bring it forward along with me. I needed someone who could work with me. From the artistic point of view, we had great chemistry, the rest we had to build on. So there are a lot of similarities in your approach to dance. Satpathy: The first time Gaurima [Protima] saw us dancing together she said we were xerox copies of each other. Sometimes, we were shocked to see photographs of us in motion and see we were in sync. I think apart from the approach to learning we also had developed similar sensibilities such as how we hear the music, interpret the rhythm, where the motivation comes from and how the movement was executed. I learned a lot from Surupa. I came from a system which was very close and conservative even in terms of my upbringing. Also, where I danced which was Odisha, the base of Odissi, it was different the way I learned. Here, there was a lot of freedom and there was a lot of excitement in relearning the same things. She bought a great understanding of line and form, in the way we execute the simplest of the movement. I learned to speak from here. Surupa, did your background in bharatanatyam help you with line and form? After all, unlike Bijayini, you had only three years of training in Odissi. Sen: Three years of Odissi at Nrityagram is very different from pursuing dance anywhere else. Here, it meant dancing 12 to 18 hours a day for 365 days. It's like going 12 years to a dance school. Satpathy: That is why we could dance together. In Bhubaneshwar, I started with classes twice a week and then it became four times a week. But it was never as much as what we do here. Sen: When I teach my students, I tell them, please don't tell anybody how many years you trained with me. Please tell them how many hours you actually spent in my classroom. It's very clear that what I have taught you is very specific to the number of hours you are also putting in. That's the difference of living in a gurukul and at home. Here you are just sleeping, eating, drinking, dreaming and thinking dance. You are always in sync. How do you make dancing together so fluid? Do you share a telepathic connection? Satpathy: I want to say yes. When she is creating work for two of us, it takes least amount of time. When the two of us are rehearsing a duet, it takes the least amount of time. So actually speaking coordination is the least of our concerns. Surupa has a great level of respect for me and my art and I have the same for her too. With that comes a natural awareness of how we move with each other. I feel very safe with her. I feel ecstatic when I am dancing with her because my dance becomes a deeper experience. It's almost like the mythological characters and situations come alive for me when I am on stage with her because she brings another layer of realness to the performance. I feel I tune with her completely. It is action reaction, question answer and responding to each other's little movement. We dance very instinctively. All these years we have practiced to reach that point where you are not thinking. I mean, you want to be thinking dancers but I don't want to be thinking when I am performing. I am able to do that with her. What about you, Surupa? Sen: She has spoken a lot. (Laughs) Satpathy: I learned that from you too. Sen: No Bijayini is like a sponge. Sathpathy: In a bad way. Sen: (Laughs) It is unbelievable her ability to absorb information in all aspects of her life. She really is a living legend as a dancer because she brings to her work discipline and intensity. Any dancer who has worked with her will tell you that every single day she brings 500 per cent to class. It doesn't matter if she is performing or not performing. It is really hard to keep up with her; honestly even for me. I am just tired sometimes thinking, 'Oh God, I couldn't dance with Bijayini again'. She sets the standards for those around her. I am slightly off. Sometimes, when I'm motivated I can bring the world to that space and when I am not I want to do something else. We are completely different personalities. But that works in your favour, right? Satpathy: She is the left brain and I am the right. I am very logical, practical, very disciplined and I love my routine. I like to be by the clock. Surupa just rolled her eyes as you spoke. Satpathy: I know. She works in a very intuitive manner. Sometimes, it's very hard especially when you are working with a deadline because her creative juices start flowing in the eleventh hour and I'm panicking thinking what's going to happen. But everything works out. But I am so glad she is who she is because I can be, like she says, very boring. That's why I don't create. Many people have asked me, 'You are such a great dancer why don't you create? You have everything and all you need to do is put it together.' But I don't want to do anybody else's work. If Surupa stops creating from tomorrow, then she has created enough work for me to dance for the rest of my life. That's how much I love her work. I don't want her to be anybody else even though she makes my life miserable at times. She changes things constantly. She creates 15 different ways and I tell myself it is good for me as I have 15 different options to do it. So I shouldn't argue. Sen: But you can't help yourself. Satpathy: That's because I am routine bound. Sen: I have a theory to this which Guru Protima taught me. When I'd tell her that yesterday you said this and now you're saying something different, she'd reply, 'Surupa, a million cells have changed since yesterday. We are not the same people.' Change is the only constant. For me it is extremely important that I keep myself excited about what I do. Satpathy: I don't think she does it consciously. For me it could be a movement that I have struggled and beat myself to get it right and five years later, she will say, 'That's my movement? Not possible.' So your choreography is always evolving? Sen: Yes, because your abilities are changing. For me as a choreographer I denounce all ownership of my work and it is the dancer's to do with it what they want. As a dancer I must own my work and dance it as if it is mine. That's essentially the difference between dance and choreography for me. It is something that has a breath and life of its own. Every time you see it, you feel that you haven't quite done the justice that it requires then you enhance it a bit. Tell us a bit about your choreography process. Surupa you are the creator and Bijayini, you've to execute it. Satpathy: In both pure dance and abhinaya, when she is creating she gets in a state of trance. I have never seen her create with her eyes open. She can move for hours with her eyes closed. Sometimes she ends up with her nose to the wall and it is pretty crazy to look at the situation. I watch her every move. She makes very vague movements. What I try to read is what she is feeling which is difficult as her eyes are closed. Eighty per cent of the time what I show her is pretty close to what she is thinking. So it's not as much about shape and form but about reading what's inside of her. So whenever you are creating she is around? Sen: She better be around because it is very difficult for me to do it with someone else. They really irritate me. As she said it is because she is picking up the motivation of movement and where it is coming from and others don't know what the heck I am thinking. It's tuning to what I am thinking and feeling. Dance for me is about listening. For many dance would all be about observing as it is a visual medium? Sen: Observing is a lot about listening. For me the movement is the sound of it. It is just not the movement. Often I say, 'How can you make such a line? The sound is not right.' Sometimes all I have to do is to look at a dancer and say, 'How could you even do that?' It's not just coming from a space of thinking. With Bijayini she is really listening when I am creating and the others are still trying to get into my brain which is sometimes very boring because the complete flow of creativity is lost. She seems like a tough taskmaster. Bijayini, did you have to make adjustments? Sen: Now she is my taskmaster. Don't go by her sweet look. Satpathy: No, none at all. I was very excited to do any number of practices. But I have a small complaint. I weave my stories around her choreography because I have to own it and be extremely convincing in what I am executing. I am not settled into it completely unless I hear her speak about where it is coming from. Sometimes, for two years, you don't know what it is about. One fine day, after we have performed it 50 times, she says, 'This is what this piece is all about.' And I am like, 'Why didn't you say it two years ago, when you made it?' But It's a process I am beginning to understand. Sen: I really don't know it myself. That can be frustrating. Do you have fights? Satpathy: We have had petty fights. 'You must call that person?' 'Why should I call?' We have a lot of discussions and interesting arguments. Sen: There is a lot of respect. She has trusted me. Why should she? Satpathy: Because you do brilliant work. Sen: You didn't know that when you first came here. Trust and respect that's really important to sustain a partnership. Sen: And it is also about making dance greater than yourself. When we get on the stage, nothing matters. Dance to us is not about us. Nrityagram is not just about us. It is about preserving a legacy and doing justice to dance. That is the reason we will always have a connection even if we go separate ways. How did you go about dividing the responsibilities? Satpathy: It was a natural thing. My inclination was towards training? Sen: I was choreographing even before she came in. After I had choreographed a non-traditional piece and presented it, Gaurima said, 'Whatever you do, don't worry. Just fly and I will back you 100 per cent.' It's a huge gift somebody can give. That's what makes Nrityagram different from other gurukuls is that we live like a community of dancers. There is a lot of freedom to think, to grow, to explore. If somebody tells me what you are doing is not quite Odissi, and I'm thinking well, for 23 years all I do is practice this form 24/7 for 365 days, only think about it and it has grown and changed in its own way. It's not about me but the dance and listening to what it wants and where it wants to take you. If that means I'm not doing Odissi, then perhaps I am not. May be I'm just going with the flow. It's a criticism directed at Nrityagram - What you' re doing is not Odissi. But you've been expanding the movement vocabulary and oeuvre. Sen: Our vocabulary is much larger because of the way she [Bijayini] has been recreating the basic vocabulary so that it becomes more accessible to student. What is existing is very little. It is only 70 years of revival in Indian context. It has its history going back to 2000 years ago. You can do something with it and the possibilities are enormous. At this point of time, after dancing for so two decades, we have only now begun to understand what it means to dance. It is only the tip of the iceberg. I feel hopeless on some days. There are days when I think that I can do nothing that is going to make any difference to this. There are some days I wish that it would consume me so much that there is nothing of me left. It's funny. You are also in an idyllic environment which allows you to create freely. Sen: It is a guru cool. Satpathy: It is beautiful space to dance. It is paradise. Sen: The whole point of a gurukul is to build a relationship to your environment. I came from the city and didn't know one leaf from the next. The fact that we live with the animals, we grow our own food, we live amidst nature - there are scorpions and snakes here - the elements become part of your life. But there are challenges to be in this place. Satpathy: We would have thousands of students if it was close to the city. Because of the distance people have to be extremely committed to come here. The ones who live here are trying to make a career out of it. That's a small number. How many? Sen: There are five now. Satpathy: Besides that we have workshop, weekend and Surupa's city class students. The way we work is because of the way we live. Sen: As I say, we are not the most brilliant dancers. Satpathy: True. Sen: There are thousands more talented and smarter than us. But when you see us dance what do we bring to you? We bring the belief that this is our life and there is this moment and none other. That's what makes us different. It is not about performing but living another moment. If someone says to me we can't be here at Nrityagram, a part of my heart will just die. It will happen and I am preparing for that moment. When Gaurima died I used to think that she was pretty indispensable. But then she's gone and even though for me every single moment she is still alive in a lot of ways, the fact is the place went on and the same way we will go and hopefully the dream will live on. The greatest freedom we have now is that we think of ourselves as utterly dispensable. So that's how you work. I will continue to do the work I do to the best of my abilities. So there is no burden of legacy? Sen: There is no burden for me anymore. I used to think about it a lot. When she died, we took it on. For me to see her vision die was impossible. I couldn't do that to my guru. I am a believer like her. I believe so I do. Otherwise I simply won't. The place and the work are so much bigger than us. Even if the place doesn't exist, we will take the work somewhere else. It is the work that matters to me. But can the work you do emerge any place else? Sen: It can be anything that it wants to be and will always find the people to make it happen. Gaurima says, 'The land has a destiny of its own and I am an instrument that makes it happen.' I believe dance is like that. Living in Nrityagram, you are consumed by dance. What else do you like to do? Satpathy: You have to see us disco. Sen: We do that really well too. Satpathy: We travel a lot together. It is not dance related. When we finish a tour, we get rid of everybody and along with Lynne [manager and light designer] and Pavitra [member of Nrityagram Dance Ensemble] we take off to see some part of the world. Sen: We read. Outside the dance class, I rarely discuss dance. Satpathy: We party hard when we can. Sen: She doesn't know what it means. Satpathy: For Lynne's birthday? Yes we do. At the end of the summer workshop, we have a party. Some of our students saw us grooving to Chaiyya Chaiyya an Kajra Re and then they said, "Thank you for doing this. You became real people for us." We are not as good as Madhuri Dixit. I'd love to do one of her numbers like she does. Sen: We are normal. A lot think we are not.